Siege ~ Who is he?

siege

Who is he?

Business owner, Graphic Designer, Hip Hop Artist, has two internationally recognized music singles, featured on Mixtapes from the UK hosted by DJ Bunty (Mixkings) and Knew Rulz (Draft Pick DJs) , most recently having a track produced by US Producer Illmind who has been linked to G-Unit and featured on one of Illmind’s signature mixtapes Blaps Rhymes & Life vol. 5 co- produced by one of England biggest Djs, Dj Dub MD which has reached close to 200,000 downloads which dropped in February 2011 and Siege will be featured on another mixtape out of Las Vegas done by The Mixtape Brothers due to release on June 4^th 2011.  He has received airplay on stations in Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Houston and New York.

After hearing Siege the first question on people’s lips was exactly where is Siege from? The answer to that being somewhere no one would’ve guessed…Trinidad & Tobago. Yes Trinidad & Tobago, the same place great artists such as Heather Headley, Chip Fu, Etienne Charles and Niki Minaj to name a few came from but unlike the rest Siege has never left his native country, yet possess a sound that has been considered one that fits in globally.

Born on November 1^st 1985 to parents of Black and East Indian descents, Siege was always recognized as composed, humble being. He was blessed with artistic abilities in poetry, painting and visual arts. He was both respected and admired by his peers.

Residing in the town of Belmont located in Port of Spain, Trinidad, he grew up amongst mixed influences, being exposed to the bright and dark side of life. Siege observed his counterparts and gained knowledge and was greatly educated about the rules and ways of street life.

Although he was exposed to the drug pushers and the street life, he still completed his education, gained an average job and tried to establish himself in the economic world. Still having a love for poetry and rap music Siege recognized that he had a great talent and should put it to good use. “Being exposed to music by great emcees such as NAS, Killer Priest, Rakim, Black Thought from the Roots, KRS  One, Busta Rhymes, The Wu Tang Clan and Dr. Dre just to name a few, tends to have an effect on you over a period of time” He said.

Realizing this he started his journey as an emcee at the age of 19 years in 2004. He was quickly recognized for his ability to be uniquely lyrical and hold down freestyle session like days of old on street corner ciphers. Other emcee’s from around the way heard of him and started to vibe off his style and persona. “We use to have ciphers all the time, we used to feed off each other’s lyrics just making our own internal flame spark, priming us to spit our hardest and do lyrical and verbal damage to opponents” he said.

He started recording with some local underground artists and it went well for a while but he later decided to spread his wings and pursue his own path and squash the whole group idea. “It wasn’t for me, I just didn’t mesh with those brothers, we all had creative differences and like crabs in a bucket they tried to push down each other …not my style” he said

He took a break for a while and concentrated on graphic arts but as with any addiction he was back to developing his talent as an emcee once more. Later on in November 2006 he started working on music with his long time friend Christopher aka D’Chris/Bruce Wheyn of D2B (Dem 2 Boie). “I knew Chris since childhood, we chopped it up a few times but decided to take it serious in 2006” he said. Christopher then introduced Siege to Miguel aka Boogie Brown of D2B, Producer. “First time before I went to studio D’Chris warned me, Boogie don’t feel bullshit, he is real, as real as you could ever be when it comes to Hip Hop but soon as he heard me rap, he got all the proof he needed that I was indeed a force to be reckoned with.” he said. Since then they’re worked on different projects such as “The Urban Re-Collective” Album, “The Brick Soup Kitchen” Album and featured on many of D’Chris Flip City Mix Shows. Siege now in his 20’s and certified graphic artist is still hard at work perfection is discipline as an emcee.

Siege is currently recording his Mixtape “Black Diamond Chronicles” working with producers such as The Beat Heroes out of Miami, Florida, London based producer Anno Domini and German producer Philip Grothe of MAKA Productions. He has also currently teamed up with Jedi Night Skool out of the US and is working on a EP, Title, Guest features and date of release to be announced.

To listen and download current and past releases from Siege go tohttp://www.moneymarketlegacy.bandcamp.com , to follow updates on twitter go towww.twitter.com/2MLegacy

For booking and interviews send email to info@moneymarketlegacy.com or moneymarketlegacy @gmail.com

FOLLOW THE TEAM ON TWITTER AT @BLACKBILLGATES1  @jerseystar973 @5stargmusic  @AspiringChngInc @SIEGE @BruceWheyn @RantzDavis 

 

Global Rhythmz Logo Partnerships

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http://www.globalrhythmz.com/globalgood

Global Rhythmz is an internationally recognized network of independent artists and fans of the underground movement. Based in the U.S., Europe, Latin America, and Turkey, the GR-Team is heavily involved in the music and entertainment scene. Our international reach is a means to provide you with the highest quality of creative services available and enables us to transform your visions into branded solutions. Our slogan “Uniting the World through Music” remains true via: our Website, Internet Radio Programs, Marketing & Promotions, Global Rhythmz Festival, and Music Distribution.


What’s the difference between Global Rhythmz and other music websites? We personally Promote and Market every artist! Behind Global Rhythmz is a real International Marketing Machine designed to give Independent and Underground Artists as much promotion and exposure as possible.
We enable our partners to also support our movement in many ways also…via our logo partnerships. With this Program, we enable them to reach the thousands users and artists who login to our website everyday.

The advantages of joining GR family are not limited to those, but also:

Having the chance to be among the first radio stations to play some exclusive releases
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changing market dynamics.

Promoting your brand on the Global Rhythmz website among artists and people who are interested in
music industry by having direct site links and logo.


We take our partnerships seriously, so we are open to all new organization and promotion deals from our
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Love Letter 8

A secret love affair, you’ve taken me by your hand you’ve lead me at the beat of your heart you took me amorously you stirred feelings that thrive on this lust, this love, this desire you’ve awakened any dull moments in my life when I am with you. You’re like the light in the dark you lead the way to a sanctuary of sounds that vibrate through my body touching every sense in me. Igniting moves as you dip me fiercely staring deep into my soul with your eyes. And when you dance with me, I fall weak to your strong hands and your firm body. I’ve longed for you to touch me this way.  You’ve not touched me fervently but calmly and loosely to a point of no return. I’m capsulated by your love. I thought of this night a million times only in my dreams. We’ve danced to the beat of this song before, one of your hands on back as the other rests slightly on my chest as you traced the contours of my cleavage. Your back hand slowly crept up my back to my neck pulling me into you I smelled your scent which leaves me bewildered and in this moment alone I’ve submitted to your flow. Let me tell you of the things that you do to me, your mind moves me, and I’ve been dominated by the powerful emotions of this dance that I’ve only imagined with you.

This private affair in my imagination that takes me places at the beat of your heart, strumming life into my very existence. So profoundly, tender like whispers to my ear. It is a whole new language you speak to me when I am with you. The forbidden kind of love, that breathes in the silence of the night’s shadows. I can not sit again for the wonders of this dance have me in a complete happiness experienced here and now.Oh, the joys of the flesh longing to be near you again to caress you with ecstasy.  Where has the night gone already these past moments without you seem like centuries pardoned by days. My heart flutters with each palpitation of the beat of thine own. I write you this beautiful letter in appreciation and adoration of all the love you’ve given to me on this night where we’ve danced as one.

I long to bask in your tender gazes, our hands clasped together and the day I can call you my forever lover.  Looking into your eyes with such admiration, the harmonious recognition of your genuinely extended  love.  I can only entice you to give your whole heart purposefully. I toss and turn in the dead of night just before I lay down due to the effect you have on me.  You’ve delighted my soul in such a way that is unimaginable, only that of a visionary could see such beauty. In all your wonder you send me in awe and i am mesmerized by all your melodic wonders. It is without a doubt that i am full of certainty that it is you I was born to be with for the rest of my life.

May the joys of heaven continually shine on our path together in where once was strangers has magnificently grown into such a refined beauty.

Love Letter 7 - To My Husband - Heartaches

Dear Husband,

I come to you today because I have no one else to tell my secrets to nor do I wish to share them with anyone else. I always write letters of love and never of the pain and this one, this letter is about the pain that I suffer when you are away. Forgive me this once for the negativity, as I flourish in words….

It is not easy to be absent from you without pain. The feelings of love I’ve suppressed in fears that when the day comes to greet you I will be unable to sustain them. Rushing into your arms wind through my hair and pushing through crowds to see you once again. To kiss your tender lips, soft sweet chocolate lips. Out of the depths of my bewildered heart flows a tangible current of love, streaming through tears. Tears set free, form such a yearning to hold, see, touch, feel, and hear you.

As I sit here I pondered many thoughts of the time that I have shared with you. We’ve grown together and you’ve been my strong hold. I sit beneath the dim light of the lamp and the coolness of the evening and amongst the many shadows in this dark moment and I miss you.

My heart is heavy dear, with wonders of you and the day you’ve yet to be in my life forever. I envy the flowers of the garden that you’ve once walked amongst in my dreams, because the flowers stand so sweet yet so strong and alive. My dreams without you are tedious like a slow death, I awake at times with great sorrow and disappointment.  

I sit during a portion of my nights lost in this deep sadness of wonders. Wondering, of the day you’ve yet to write me back. You never write to me at all. You have not even made any effort to smudge not even a speckle of ink on a sheet of paper.

Pushing away my love, and all that is of me and in me and expressed passionately in every second of every moment of time with you. I sit here and I go through these photographs you’ve shared with me. I seek each one with answers, and it becomes stifling in the heart.

You've left me with this passion like a cougar that awaits her meal I peacefully go about continuously with such valor. In hopes that as I encounter this pain that I am able to face it with such frankness and bravery.

I shall end this letter with these thoughts. You have taken all real pain out of my life even during the deepest darkest most horrifying times you are with me. Your memory clings to me like an old book with its torn pages it still has its history and I feel an utmost gladness in these fond moments.

Sincerely, Your Wife – Sarah Saldana

Below is the song that inspired this letter... Enjoy! 

My views and opinions on tattoos ...

So back when I was younger I was always asked about if I wanted to get a tattoo or if I ever thought about getting one. The answer is yes I pondered this thought many times and the pressure of wanting one was great! I wanted one so bad just to rebel against my mother because she never had one and she never believed in getting them and they weren’t for ladies. Apparently “whores” had them, prostitutes or people who had hard lives or were on drugs.  Some people get them because they want to change their persona from looking "Nerd to Geek " in which being a Geek is much cooler.  

I’ve even had people I worked with detectives, and such people in respectable job positions tell me that they wouldn’t accept food from people with tatoos and then I started to look at the people that I would come in contact with that had tattoos on their hands. Thinking does this person do drugs what if this person has aids, could this have any effect on me? 

As I grew out of that thinking method and just started to ignore things again I realized it wasn’t a great harm that someone did have a tattoo on their hand. But I have also learned that heroin addicts did hide their scars with tattoos but so did just ordinary people who have had accidents or birth marks or scars that they wanted to have hidden.

People get tattoos for different reasons another subject was the young adults that were getting what you call the “Tramp Stamps” this basically signifies that you "like" anal sex by getting this tattoo located on your lower back just above your buttocks. If you think about it tattoos are solicited as being sexy, or cool. So people associate tattoos with sex instantly. Especially in the world of photography because they aim to show off the tattoo but sometimes neglect the person and their beliefs or strengths or motives for actually getting the tattoo. 

People are also getting tattoos that are similar to each other to declare their undying love for one another as stated in this article here where they display Hebrew tattoos and foreign language.  http://hubpages.comhub/Tattoo_Ideas_Hebrew_Words_Phrases I believe even Angelina Jolie and many other celebrities have gotten their tattoos as such. I have had family that has had tattoos and they won’t remove them for their own personal reasons. Many websites like this one state that tattoos are a way to express yourself a style an art form in some degree I believe that is true but in others I do not. http://tattoos.iloveindia.com/tattoo-history/tattooing-in-africa.html I believe that a tattoo is far more than just a piece of art work on your body.  

Tattoos stand for something far more deeper than just a piece of art work I believe that it stands for your heritage your race, your decree in the world this is how people look at it. This is why they refuse to remove them when asked to do so for work because they feel that they’re being stripped of their history their belief, and again this is how they demonstrate their freedom of the 1^st amendment. “Freedom of Expression”

So why wouldn’t it be ok for me to get a tattoo right? I am old enough now and able to get one and now that I have had a rare look into the idea of it I am reluctant to do so. Why you ask, one because I have seen so many young teen -agers get them that I think it’s more for young adults than it is an adult I think it’s a stage we all grow out of. I believe it’s a desire you have at the moment but then you change your mind later realizing I wish I had not done that. Because when your children, see you doing things like this they will follow in your foot steps and to what extreme do you think they might go? See examples of what i mean by extreme behavior in the below link…. Not only that but what are you opening their world up too?

 http://treebeard31.wordpress.com/2007/10/03/repeat-after-me-i-will-never-complain-about-my-kids-again/ 

Now that you know my decision on the subject how about my other view “Devils Advocate” Yes I love the tattoos I love the way they look and I am all for “Freedom of Expression”. I believe if I were to ever get a tattoo it would be something like the one here in this photograph to the right, because if I ever had to defile my body it would be like this something beautiful.  

Now back to the “non-Advocate” view I’ve expressed many of the rare reasons why I wouldn’t get a tattoo and some of the reasons why I would but here I will also give you my religious view God made us in his image why would I want to change that or alter it? Oh I can hear you grumbling already! Lolol don’t worry I am not judging you these are just views as you state your tattoos are expressions so is my writings. I am expressing my differences and my beliefs, and my opinions as you are with tattoos which prove my point that tattoos are more than just Art. Some tattoos demonstrate the more tribal art like below and as stated and expressed in the first link provided above. 

In the second link above it’s funny they will show you a few of the many meanings of what tattoos mean, but they never tell you or show you the gang related tattoos. Why is this? Why would anyone who is so defensive to standing up for their gang or standing up for their barrio or their city? Here are only a few reasons why they are hiding the meaning beneath the art because this is how they communicate with each other to decipher who is who and which involvement with which gang and how many years you have been in that gang. I asked once, what that tear drop meant underneath a young man’s eye, he said it meant that he had killed someone. It was part of his initiation to the gang involvement.  

There are other gangs and I have to also be careful of what I share because of the privacy of others. There are so many individuals who are even tattooing themselves on their forehead and underneath their hair so when they shave their head it is on their head to be seen for all to know where they came from. But the thing about this is that those same people have suffered have lived a hard life and have come from a background with a rough upbringing. Which in my opinion is probably the worse reason to get a tattoo because when those people that have hurt you die you’re stuck with the remembrance of it all? Then there are those that can’t get a job because their face it tattooed unless you’re working in a tattoo parlor.  

I’ve assisted many people in my young age with resume writing these are grown folks in their 40’s and above that don’t know or forgot to write a resume. How do you think I feel when I am sitting next to these people who have had time to learn but don’t put enough effort into themselves they don’t love themselves enough to educate themselves to do their activisms wisely. No for years the Hispanic heritage is always the parents looking to the oldest to take care of them when they grow old.  

I am facing these issues now in my life and what difference does a tattoo make? Sure I can have my say in the world right, but what real difference is it doing? Other than making a statement of where I am from. I wish these gangs would do greater things than what most of them do. Another psychological view is that some people like pain, and or suffered pain in their life and when you get a tattoo it is like if you have one it some how eases the pain because the person feels that they have let it out their say without words. Their point of view without having to say anything.  

Any how these are my views about tattoos and it’s not about “gangs” that is for another blog someday. So if you are thinking of getting a tattoo either way I hope that I have not discouraged you but have opened your eyes and mind to the some hidden meanings to having a tattoo.

THE OPINIONS EXPRSESED IN THIS BLOG IS NOT TO SWAY OR CHANGE YOUR MIND IN GETTING A TATTOO OR TO DOWNSIZE THE BUSINESS OF TATTOOING IT IS ONLY TO OPEN YOUR MIND TO THE REASONS OF WHY WE DO WHAT WE DO. ~ Sarah Saldana

“If you would like to have your company information below this blog as to where people can go when deciding to get a tattoo please let me know and I will post it. Thank you!”

Thoughts about Beautification - My Rant

Beautification is the process of making visual improvements to a person, place or thing. With regard to a town, city or to an urban area, this most often involves planting trees, shrubbery, and other greenery, but frequently also includes adding decorative or historic-style street lights and other lighting and replacing broken pavement, often with brick or other natural materials. Old-fashioned cobblestones are sometimes used for crosswalks; they provide the additional benefit of slowing motorists.

Beautification projects are often undertaken by city councils to refurbish their downtown areas, in order to boost tourism or other commerce. Often, this is also spurred by broken sidewalks, which pose a safety hazard for pedestrians and potentially insurmountable obstacles for wheelchair users. These projects are frequently part of other larger projects such as construction, especially in conjunction with ones for transit, such as streets and roads and mass transit.

ABOVE DEFINITION DEFINED IN WIKIPEDIA - You can look it up yourself at wikipedia.org

Because I have been a resident of my city for over 20 years, I feel that this need is important. I have worked with many of these workers, who are utilized to help maintain the beautification of our City. I am not being negative toward them and their work they have done. They have done much work but the supply of workers, doesn’t meet the demand of our city. Neither do the funds for the equipment meet its financial needs. I still don’t think that this has any effect on why I am writing this blog.

I’ve recently noticed that area’s where the big offices of the City Hall, or The Police Department, or the Community Relations Office are located are much cleaner than other area’s in our City. I noticed things that have been over looked even though the workers continue to maintain certain areas of the City’s shrubs and scenic views. The City has made many developments and many enhancements but I have also noticed money being spent in areas of our City that could be spent on other areas of more importance. 

For instance one area of the City where the welcome sign is has been beautified twice! Not just once but the first time they did it, I was amazed and it looked beautiful and over time I have watched them change it for a second time. They laid down grass and then they dug it up and laid it out again, it was like kids with building blocks. Either someone was making decisions and couldn’t decide exactly the way it should have looked in the first place.

These are the things I have witnessed with my very own eyes. I have also witnessed many of the crime rates going down because of the same Beautification Unit fighting to keep Graffiti down, while focusing on that other things get overlooked in my opinion. But at the same time if you don’t have a Community that gets involved to help their City grow things remain the same. 

So, I’ve done my part aside from complain about these several incidents I stood back and just watched as time has went by. But I’ve held it in long enough. I walked through this one tunnel several times and every time I have I have to pass the smell of urine and bird pooh. I walked to go get dinner several times or to go get videos and then I come home and when I finally get home to relax I am disgusted by the smell and sight that I lose my appetite. 

I have faced not only these horrid eye sores but I have had to deal with homeless men that are hanging around the area. I had one man come up to me suspiciously look around to see if anyone was looking as he stepped to me in my space and asked me if I was married and if I lived alone and where was I walking too. Now in other towns and areas I have never had to deal with this type of behavior but this tunnel has attracted the wrong attention and because of the lights that haven’t been changed in I don’t know how many years it is darker than usual at night.

So it not only enables the men during the cold rainy dark times to take more notice and advantage of the secluded areas. The thing that bothers me is that there are kids that walk down this street to take the bus to go to school or that are coming home from school. So you ask what’s my passion behind this whole blog, it’s that I’ve been giving back to my Community but honestly I do not feel that my City officials have really been there for my City. I wish that they would get rid of most of the City council members and put in a whole new batch of people who are dedicated to really taking action! I am so tired of these older officials I mean seriously, I think our City would benefit from a younger generation of people than these old heavy set people in wheel chairs that can’t and haven’t even taken change in their own lives! 

These people who mentor our children I remember a time back when I was younger. I was in fourth grade I will never forget this moment, I really wanted to learn my times tables. It was a big thing for me because back then Math was my favorite subject. Our Mayor at the time was visiting our class it was a big day for me to meet the Mayor she sat next to me this big heavy set woman with white hair and on the small chair.  I thought wow how important I felt. Right? Doesn’t it always seem that way when you are younger that these important people in your life make you feel important! Well she sat with me trying to teach me my times tables, but she didn’t teach me she showed me how to cheat. That experience alone made me lose all the trust I had in the system alone. I honestly at that age was upset that she had taught me to cheat and didn’t really take the time to teach me my times tables. 

Well she’s not the Mayor anymore no, we’ve had several since then but the latest one I was surprised to hear about because he was a man who I had held in high regard. His wife was believe it or not was a teacher or substitute one or the other, anyhow he was recently in the news paper for domestic violence and alcohol. I mean come on! Well this blog isn’t about their family issues, nor is it about their life, it’s about my experience with the business positions they have held in my City and the fact that not even our Officers are being paid enough money for what they do.

Enough of my ramblings, here are a few Photographs to share with you what I am talking about….. It was funny because just yesterday i had brought up the subject and today i caught the Beautification Unit working on the same area of which i am discussing.  But they still left behind the years of bird droppings and the stains on the walls have yet to be taken care of. The piles were bigger than this, as previously shown on other photo's it's just that they swept some of it up just not all of it. Above is before, they swept up some of it, and below is after they swept it. what more can you get from these community service/cal trans workers that don't get paid to do this.

Another point is that not only are the City officials responsible for making sure these issues are being met, but it's the responsibilities of some of these business owners. #JustSaying

VALUE CONFLICT AND ABORTION

ABORTION AND ITS ARGUMENTS

“Value Conflict” In the next few paragraphs if you haven’t already made your decision on abortion, weather to be pro-life or pro-choice. You will see that you will have “Value Conflict” the value being freedom.  Do your core values change? I will share some pro-choice views and pro-life views in which you will be able to question if you still hold strongly to your view without question?

[Science and reason clearly reveal a human fetus to be a human being]

The above proposition is a statement of fact. Its truth or falsity is to be determined by applying principals of science and reasoning. It is not a question of opinion, belief, or religious dogma. Many reasons or justification for killing the unborn human, and thereby terminating an unwanted pregnancy, are not trivial; but certainly they should be examined with rigorousness given that the interest sought to be protected costs the life of a human being. Different people use different standards of measurement by which to define “human life” some use a theological or religious faith belief, some as philosophical theories and beliefs, others by using biologic, scientific facts.

[In regards to Rape Victims]

 We must approach this with great compassion. The woman has been subjected to an ugly trauma, and she needs love, support and help. Being the victim of one violent act should we now ask that she become party to a second violent act – that of abortion? The percentage of rape pregnancies are said to be less than half. Back in 1999 when I started this research, There was a decreased rate in Rapes. What about if the rape victim is married? What if the rape victim is supported by her family members? What about other options?

Clearly you can tell that I am very passionate about this subject given my history. I am a product of a rape  and speaking from experience I can tell you that it is a difficult decision to make and I am proud of my mom for what she had decided.  Although, I have been  a very hard worker, and I’ve went to college and I am here nothing’s wrong with me. There are many questions that I have had to face that will always be there for the rest of my life, like:  What about the baby growing up without a father? I grew up without a father and to be honest with you, you do tend to look for that male security. But you find it in your uncle or your grandfather if you have a loving family, and if you have some type of religious faith you look to God your spiritual father who provides for you. But what happens if you don’t? Then the other option is adoption.

The mother may hate the child due to the fact that she may see some traits of the rapist within the child. This is true but it’s not because she hates the child it’s because she’s been hurt by this man really bad and will be reminded by it for the rest of her life. Will the child know his/her heritage? That’s the question that I still have to deal with. “Where did I come from Mommy?” What will the mother tell the child then?

The decision is when are they ready to hear the truth. I wasn’t ready to hear about the way I was born. I had raised questions like will I grow up to be like this rapist? I was a freshman in high school my mom had gotten married and the man she married wasn’t a good husband. Two years into the relationship she found out that this man was gay and then I had witnessed him abusing my mother. I was traumatized as a child and some things I still face today. I will always be reminded how I was born I can’t change that.

This is one of the major arguments today in our society. Will this child be abused because of who the father really is? Facts have proven that not too many people can get pregnant from a rape. There are many questions  that too like … if the person is too old to conceive, or too young. How can we help? What programs should we have? What about population there are just enough of us in the world today.. It has also been proven that in some countries there are not enough people. And with that you need people to function in a society. I believe that before I did this report I was pro-life but when it comes down to it where does it all go back to? Education, I believe if we educated these high school/college students more then we wouldn’t be having this argument.

The whole reason why this has been a governmental issue is that we have to make sure that an increase in population wouldn’t harm our status now. Second, who will pay for these abortions? Where do our taxes go? I have made a decision not to have an opinion on either side.

I do believe that if there is a child that was a product of a bad home and with a parent that is not mentally fit to have a child and has somehow got pregnant what should she do? I thought classes to teach her how to care for this child. But who will pay for these classes? What if you have a parent that has 7 kids already and one day she doesn’t plan on it and she gets pregnant? What if you need to make the decision of killing your baby or dying because of complications? Where does your sanity lie here?

When it comes to your freedom and your freedom of speech, press, and so on if we give the government our decision to decide whether or not we will keep or not keep this child, then what about later on what other decisions is the government going to make for us? What do you believe do you kind of believe both views? Or neither?